Tuesday, January 17, 2012

Are You a Part Time Patriot or a Full Time Nationalist?

Nothing pisses me off more than listening to a bunch of war mongering nationalists claim that Guantanamo Bay is some necessary and efficient piece of the "war on terror." This is absolute bullshit.

I have pissed off more than one debate club on the intarwebs with this position. Interestingly enough, I find that the arguments for Gitmo are not far removed from the same arguments used to kidnap and house Japanese Americans during the 2nd World War. Stop and think about that for a minute.

If you want to anger some older Americans- ask them what due process they employed when ruining the lives of Japanese Americans. You can have some first class fireworks as those unconscious and now ancient nationalists defend the stripping of American rights for no other reason than "we were scared." Yea, that's it. That's nationalism.

You want an example of nationalism on steroids? Hitler's Germany. Citizens of that time still love Hitler. I've met several of them.

Here is the deal. If you believe in freedom- you must believe in freedom for all people. You cannot simply pick and choose when to apply freedom and under what circumstances you will give some. You either represent freedom for all or you don't. You can't invoke the "gosh we were really scared and that justified Gitmo" excuse every time some asshole flies planes into buildings.

A couple of years ago, I got in a heated debate with a couple of high brow liberals over Gitmo. Gitmo is a complete and utter disaster. Once you kidnap people, whether you can justify it or not...once you detain people without due process as war criminals...then you can't even try them in civilian court. This "war on terror" is a war without end. Truth is, it is no more a war than the "war on drugs." Just some made up bullshit. Prisoners have no shot at justice or freedom. None. An unmitigated disaster from a place that calls itself the "land of the free." Do you know how Gitmo ends? When the prisoners all die or get released into society- here. The countries we snatched these suspects from- don't want them back. Does this mean they were likely criminals and undesirable? Of course. But they were somebody else's criminals. Now they have become ours. The countries we exported them from? Very happy. Come get some more, America.

Are some of those folks at Gitmo innocent? Of course. They were kidnapped based on the inaccurate information supplied by self serving and desperate snitches and criminals. 

Could we have held these prisoners or whatever the hell they are... on foreign or nearby bases? Yes of course. And that would have made it much easier to release them. Not now. 

I am a patriot. I love my country but I do not love my government currently. I love freedom. I believe every human being should have access to freedom. If you want to preach to the world about freedom, I think at the very least you should practice freedom and human rights. That's what we are really talking about. Human rights.

Patriots practice freedom even when freedom isn't really popular. Like at Gitmo. Even when the debate gets very heated and the arguments for exceptions become strong. Here's a supporting slice. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=28699

Please become a full time patriot. Know the difference. We desperately need some.


hac5x3 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
hac5x3 said...

Good rant. But you have a very limited audience for your POV. Most of your "fellow Americans" need only see a waving American flag to get their nationalism up. Which is why they immediately started playing God Bless America at sporting events right after 9/11 and the big invasion.

You're right, of course. War on drugs, war on terror, just more lies to further private economic interests. Just like the cold war propaganda they used to sell and start the public on a ridiculous never ending military build up.

Single White Alcoholic Seeks Same said...

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

There are rules that govern warfare (i.e. the Geneva Conventions), but once those rules are violated (and everything muslim extremists do violates the rules of war, from attacking civilians to refusing to wear identifiable uniforms) all bets are off. If they won't fight by the rules of war, we don't have to either. Abducting terrorists, denying them legal rights, none of that matters once the rules of war have been violated.

Think of it in sports terms. If you and I are in a boxing match, and the first thing I do is kick you in the balls, are you obligated to continue fighting by the rules of boxing? Or are you going to kick the s*** out of me by whatever means are at your disposal?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying everything our government has done by any stretch, but this blanket condemnation of Gitmo is illogical in the context of the battle we find ourselves in.

Brian said...

Excellent comment SWASS..not seeing anything impaired with your logic nor the way you presented it.

Government creates problems on it's own and then jumps for joy when they are tasked and then find a solution. Briefly,

We quit defending our borders around 1990. What is the role of government? To protect it's citizens. That's why we have a government in the first place. So they dropped the ball on a core responsibility.

Why did they do that? American corporations and business owners needed cheap labor. In the oil patch, in the stockyards, and most notably- in the housing boom. All of this was greased by our government, loose credit at the FED, and greedy corporations. Our elite masters.

So the government failed to protect our borders and thus a bunch of Islamic criminals came calling headed by a criminal we had armed to kill Russians decades earlier. There is that government of ours, forever meddling everywhere- doing stupid shit- because it all has a profit motive.

That's what this is all about.

You want to protects us?? Protect the borders. Prosecute offenders.

Timothy McVeigh was a horrible criminal. McVeigh was a citizen.

But nobody declared "war" on McVeigh. There was an investigation, he was sentenced and executed, and his co-conspirator was sentenced to prison.

What exactly is a "war" on terror? It's a false flag, an excuse, to wage war forever. War is very profitable- particularly to bankers and contractors. Afghanistan has lasted 10 years!

Gitmo, along with every problem we have right now, was caused by a government that has failed to perform the core functions for which we formed government in the first place.

They have forgotten what THEIR MISSION is. It is not to provide housing or student loans or to allow cheap labor to floor our borders. Or to declare eternal wars seeking out goblins. Protect your citizens' lives.

Not to mention, we are broke.

So to summarize SWASS. You cannot let government create a problem, then create seconday problems as they try to find a band aid for the first thing they fucked up.

Secondly, you can NEVER EVER protect us until you protect your own borders. Think about that. How fucking ridiculous is that?

We must set an example. We develop a plan to protect our borders. When criminals come calling and commit criminal acts here, we prosecute them. We cannot simply charge around all over the world pissing off every country and kidnapping people at will- because we "heard" they do not like us.

Our government either created or helped to create every problem we have. And they are so fucking stupid- that they actually think they are the solution.

Single White Alcoholic Seeks Same said...


Couldn't agree more on the issue of immigration and unsecured borders. The failure to secure our borders was the greatest failure of Bush's presidency (and that's saying a lot!). In fact, I would say his failure to enforce Iraq's borders after the initial military success is the reason for the quagmire we still find ourselves in. If you leave the door open for the enemy to replenish their ranks they will never grow weary.